Decks n Specs

Interesting stuff from PG:

http://surfmatters.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/a-not-so-brief-highly-subjective-look.html

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James H wrote:...I decided to use Alison's wax deck Fatty and really got into the dreamier, more holdsome ride it gives.

Are you saying waxed canvas gives more hold than Vulkem?!

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GRAYMAN wrote:Are you saying waxed canvas gives more hold than Vulkem?!

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No. Just a different vibe that I would describe as "holdsome" that emanates from our wax decked Fatty and Vespa mats. A gentler cruisin' ride that isn't all about sports performance (if that makes sense). More chilled.

Old time surfmatting

That said, our wax decked mats like to take it easy on the highest high-lines if given the right conditions.

Having used Soudal gripped Vulkrem gripped and a hot waxed deck in fairly decent waves recently I would go for the canvas waxed deck all the grip I needed found myself sliding out less on the canvas deck and will making my standard my weapon of choice from now on

Are you saying the mat slipped from under you or slipping out off the bottom? (If anyone ever tells me that canvas is more grippy than Vulkem I'll have them sectioned!)
Canvas decks are less pliable so feel more stable and are easier to ride due to this as they need less management. However, one man's stability is another man's insensitivity (wrong word but you know what I mean). Thick decks just feel dead to me.

My latest mat has bags of hold in solid hollow waves yet is 70d throughout but the dimensions make it hold like a board with fins. Lightweight 5GFs have the same effect down to their design rather than their construction.
Ultimately, the best mat is the one that works for you.

G

PS Are you comparing the same models Jerry?

GRAYMAN wrote:Are you saying the mat slipped from under you or slipping out off the bottom? (If anyone ever tells me that canvas is more grippy than Vulkem I'll have them sectioned!)

A liberal coating of zoggs xtra soft cold water wax hairdryered into the canvas deck followed by an extra frosting of wax left as-is. This, IMO, gives a grip equal to or greater than vulkem when in contact with a superstretch nylon wetsuit. In fact I've noticed the grip of the vulkem on my Omni has lessened somewhat as the "stipples" become less pronounced with wear and use. That tells me that the irregularities in the contact surface is key to the efficacy of vulkem as a deck. Would smooth vulkem work better than a freshly waxed canvas deck? I doubt it, and the comments on Swaylocks of those who've had to re-vulkem their mats would seem to indicate that its performance degrades with the loss of the "stipples". I've had the vulkem deck slip out from under me on more than one occasion, and I find myself pulling up onto the mat regularly after gently slipping off whilst paddling - this seems to be a universal truth no matter what deck you are riding: you will slip off!

What IS clear is that when you wipe-out or get rinsed, the more pliable vulkem decked mat is much easier to hold onto and retain than the waxed canvas ESPECIALLY when you are wearing gloves in winter etc. I never get separated from my vulkem decked mat whereas I'm always swimming after my canvas ones.

[Addendum: James was never heard of again following his defence of waxed canvas decks and is believed to be heavily sedated in an undisclosed institution somewhere in South Devon ]

Just to clarify "hold" refers to the mat holding on the wave face. "Grip" refers to the grip between the rider and the mat.

James, what you're describing there isn't the superior grip of a hot waxed deck. Your observation is that if you rub wax on a mat (like on a surfboard) it gets sticky and you stick to it. You could rub wax on your Vulkem for the same effect if a gooie stickiness is what you're after. There are people who do this with bald Blue Streaks to get the ultimate pliable ride (Mattitude for example). There are various problems with this, not least of which is getting wax on the bottom of the mat when you roll it (plus it's a feckin mess) but if that's what you're into then rub it on.

Vulkem when rubbed down still has grip due to the grit in the mix. Dale Solomonson has made several mats with smooth Vulkem grip. It grips less but still grips but is used for mats with a more cruisie focus. Personally, I like the stippling because it retains some texturing without the clumpiness of rolling. People periodically top up grip on their mats but that tends to be after a year or two rather than a regular event. The people you have read posts of on the likes of Swaylocks are die hard Neumatic riders dragging every last second of life out of their mats.

G

PS Soudal Fix All Hi Tack (they make other sealants including Tremflex now confusingly) does wear down and goes smooth and loses it's stickiness. That, combined with them changing the formula and it peeling off lighter materials) is why I've switched to Vulkem which is a shame because S-FAHT is virtually VOC free.

Paul and I did some experiments hot waxing lighter fabrics... Don't try that!!!

Shiney mat was the end result. Might as well have used beeswax!

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GRAYMAN wrote:Paul and I did some experiments hot waxing lighter fabrics... Don't try that!!!

Shiney mat was the end result. Might as well have used beeswax!

G

Or Parade Gloss boot polish

Yep. Pretty much varnished!

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In your experience G, would it be straightforward to re-Vulkem a 1 or 2 year old Blue Streak that just needed a top-up of grip?

Yeah. You're not "re-gripping", you're topping up. The work has been done for you. You just mask around the edge, spread a thin bit of Vulkem on and stipple it. Piece of p*ss.

You can cover whole decks with Vulkem. Dale used to. Personally I think that's too much grip and I like to leave mat as pliable as possible.

G

In terms of grip my Soudal gripped fatty has the most as in not being not knocked of in the paddle out closeley followed by Neumatic but at low inflation the standard is not far behind that you would notice, so this comes down to personal choice.
Sliding out after your or as you make your bottom turn is another question and my recent trip to Tenerife leads me to believe that you adjust your body position or move around the mat more easily on the canvas decked mat and would find my head right over the corners something I did not do on my Nuematic or Fatty this is not to say I didn,t slide out but it was easier to get back by rolling my hip in more. Had some great rides on the standard with it going through the gears something I could not replicate on the Neumattic which felt more like a bodyboard which means I will stick with the standard to find out if it was more about wave quality or the deck.

There's certainly a knack to shuffling around on different types of grip. To be honest though Jerry, I suspect your experience had more to do with the fact that you were on the high performance pocket, rocket that is the 4GF Standard. Miracle of a mat that is.

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To support your pointon your Neumatic, I think my foray into 4 pontoons is done. I find 3 far more versatile.

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I need to ' top up' my standard, its gone quite smooth and slippery. It was tremflex and crumb. G do you reckon I should apply vulkem or some more trem?

I'd go for Vulkem. It has a stickiness that Tremflex doesn't.

G

Spots or a thin re coat?

The neumatic remains an enigma have tried more air less air more rider input less rider input and it still manages to be only average and never once had one of those rides you get with a 4GF,when the mat takes off with it,s afterburners on that sensation of speed that keeps me coming back for more.Would love to hear from other neumatic riders if there is a different technique to get get the best out of this mat.

Blimp wrote: The neumatic remains an enigma have tried more air less air more rider input less rider input and it still manages to be only average and never once had one of those rides you get with a 4GF,when the mat takes off with it,s afterburners on that sensation of speed that keeps me coming back for more.Would love to hear from other neumatic riders if there is a different technique to get get the best out of this mat.

Sounds like you need a second opinion. How about you send it down here or let me rent it off you for a couple of weeks and I'll see what it makes of some prime Porthmeor barrellage? Would love to try a Neumatic

Jerry have you tried riding back a touch? Jim's a bit taller than you.

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Jerry
Though I unfortunately do not get wet enough, and probably have considerably less water time that other UK mat riders, but here's my neu view;
In decent surf (head height or more + good wave period)before I put on too much weight , I would always go for the neumatic, had my best rides on it, but maybe because I have taken it out in the best waves..... also had good rides on my original standard, with the strips of red canvas material on the deck (does not give as good a deck traction as Vulkem or that stuff G is putting on the blue streaks). Never felt comfortable on the full canvas decked 4GF's, maybe I never broken them in enough...., but don't mat enough to try, and more than happy riding "tar" mats.
Before you give up on the neu, next time you have decent waves, take the nue out, and ride it well forward and then in your normal position, and on a decent pressure. That should give you an idea of where you should position yourself. If you are still not happy, reckon there will be a few guy's who would readily take it off your hands
For now for me it's the Fatty for a fatty...., blue streak all the way ... but there will come a day.... sooner rather than later when I will get back on the neumatic....

I never quite connected with my Nue.I got a Vespa from PG and instantly it clicked.Took my Nue out
in big chop and had one of my best sessions ever.Next day in average Florida surf it felt like a dud.
So I use it when it's bigger here.Bare in mind my inexperience with mats.

What model Neumatic do you have Jeff?

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Dale recommended this one for me which I think is his basic model.It's 67.3 cm wide by 114.3 cm long.
Holds a ton of air.Twice what it takes to blow up my Vespa.The deck sticks like glue with the stippled rubber.